Adam and Eve and Me

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  1. James says:

    Thanks for your thoughts, Ryan. It takes a lot of courage to stand up on one side or the other of this debate, and it is a charged one at times. You put forward some great points where Old Earth doesn’t line up with Scripture, and are the main ones I have trouble with the theory.

    The counter-arguments are ones where seemingly good evidence for an old earth is brought forward. How do we account for that? For the last several years, I’ve been thinking about that, and I keep coming back to wondering whether God, in His providence, created an earth that appears old for the glory of His name and because the universe is functional. God’s name would be glorified in having light from already-dead stars reach Earth because we’d be able to study them and appreciate them further (who hasn’t looked up at the night sky and praised God for its beauty?) For an example of a functional universe, the sun appears millions of years old, but if it were a new star, it may not allow for life on earth.

    Just my thoughts. At a more academic level, my five years spent studying sciences at a secular university have only strengthened my young-earth views. SDG.

    • Keith says:

      James:
      I agree with you and Ryan and I’ll add my two bits.
      Adam was made a man not a child. A tree that bears fruit is older and has rings to tell it’s age. If God created these in the first days then, of course, he made the earth with age. We should not over analyze the bible. Evolution is still a theory that is too far fetched to believe let alone prove!

    • Thanks for your reply James. I agree with you and Keith, that Adam was created as a fully grown man, in need of fully grown fruit bearing trees. God did create his creation in a state of functionality. When we attempt to figure out God, I like to think that we are like my 3 year old daughter. When she asks why I have to go to work, I tell her I go to work so that we can eat. And she says..”oh ok.” And my word is good enough for her. Imagine what kind of crazy ideas would go through her mind if she tried to piece together exactly how my leaving the house for 8-10 hours every day helps her to eat. She understands that daddy must work, so she can eat. That is all she needs to know. We are also told to have a childlike faith. 🙂

  2. Really great post Ryan! Mankind can get it wrong, our God can’t.

  3. Will O. says:

    I have two comments to make, from a young earth creationist perspective. First, take a look at the immense creativity and beauty that artists, architects, engineers and others have created over time. There is something inside of us that admires creativity and art, be in a massive skyscraper or beautiful painting or majestic sunset, a pristine beach, children’s voices singing, or fossils buried in limestone. We are creative beings with the intrinsic ability to admire beauty. Being made in the image of God, it stands to reason that God is also infinitely creative and artistic. Why would he not decorate the otherwise boring rocks of the earth with fossils? Why would he not create the majesty of the universe? The old earth perspective views God as starting a process of evolution, a distant God, an uninvolved God. From my perspective, God cares very much about the earth that he created especially the people he made. Making the creation account allegorical raises some very fundamental questions about the nature of God.

    The second comment I’d like to make regards the actual process of creation that many scoff at. As Christians we acknowledge that God is all-powerful, all-knowing, supreme. The miracles that Jesus did are often ridiculed as impossible, or attempted to be reasoned away by some obscure physical principle. But why would a God that is not constrained by the laws of physics — he being not made of matter — limit himself to a physical creative process, i.e. evolution? And in the case of the miracles, rely on matter and physics to seemingly raise the dead? If he is God, he may do whatever he wants. And indeed he has done that in creating the world, creating the light from dead stars, and creating the tapestry of fossils, rock, and earth.

    • Thanks for your reply Will. What you say reminds me of an article I read, I cannot remember who wrote it. Here is a (probably wrong) version of it….Imagine the absurdity of the story of Jesus to someone who has never heard it. “Let me get this straight…So this God, the creator of the universe gets a young virgin girl pregnant? Then she gives birth to His infant divine Son in a stable in the middle of nowhere? And a choir of angels rejoice in the skies above and hardly anyone else in the world notices? And then 30 years later this same God-Man starts walking on water, multiplying food, raising the dead and healing all diseases while claiming authority over everything in the world. and even in spite of all this most people reject Him and He goes to a cross to die a brutal death that shakes the foundations of the earth. Oh and that is not all…then he raises Himself up from the dead. Walks through a tomb, walks and talks with people for a few days, and finally floats back up to heaven to be with the God that sent Him down here while sending fire raining down on the people watching? Oh yeah, and this dude’s gonna come back with fire a second time to destroy the earth?”

      Not sure if I can believe all that and not believe that he can create the universe in 6 days…

  4. Kevin says:

    Nice to hear your view Ryan,
    I Highly recommend reading this book:
    http://www.godutch.com/store/index.php?id=1147&search=bedard

    It deals with the framework hypothesis and the scriptural texts of Genesis 1&2. It does not go into the issues of scientific findings – which is why I like it. It helped me to understand the Framework hypothesis (oec) and the yec positions.

  5. Thanks, Ryan.

    Many questions are indeed answered by carefully listen to what God reveals to us in Scripture and rely on it.

    Far from changing the subject, here is something (from National Post) showing how our findings in geology can change very quickly:

    Long thought to be a slow process, a new study published in Nature Geoscience says that gold veins are produced in an instant by earthquakes.

    Scientists have long known that veins of gold and other precious minerals form around fault lines, but it was generally thought that this process took an extremely long time.

    However, the new study shows that quick changes in pressure could cause the gold to form, essentially, instantaneously.

    “We find that cavity expansion generates extreme reductions in pressure that cause the fluid that is trapped in the jog to expand to a very low-density vapour,” study authors Dion K. Weatherley and Richard W. Henley write in their journal abstract.

    From Scientific American:

    For example, a magnitude-4 earthquake at a depth of 11 kilometers would cause the pressure in a suddenly opening fault jog to drop from 290 megapascals (MPa) to 0.2 MPa. (By comparison, air pressure at sea level is 0.1 MPa.) “So you’re looking at a 1,000-fold reduction in pressure,” Weatherley says.

    /news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/18/gold-explodes-out-of-water-during-earthquakes-study/

    • Hi Albert,

      That is very interesting. If Gold veins can be created almost instantaneously by a decrease in pressure caused simply by the power of an earthquake. If an almighty God with far more power than an earthquake, can breathe stars into existence in one day, I am sure the puny humans would be no problem 🙂 Thanks for your comment and the interesting link. I am going to follow up on that.

  6. Henry says:

    As usual, another interesting read. My son and I were working together yesterday and talking about this. He had, what I thought, some interesting insights to share with me. He commented on God creating a “mature” earth, alluded to above. He also commented on Christ calming the sea, did the sea become calm instantly, or did Christ set up the pattern of weather such that the sea would calm over time. I’m hoping that he will be sharing more of his thoughts here after I send him this address.